Gold & Silver Forum - Panda dreamer

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- - Panda dreamer (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=176422)

Saw one go for slightly over a grand once , but I think this guy's a dreamer:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR bgColor=#ccccff><TD class=titlePadding width="100%">1983 SILVER 1 OZ. CHINESE PANDA - GRADED PF-68 DCAM

HIGHEST GRADE EVER ISSUED TO A 1983 PANDA BY PCGS

</TD><TD noWrap align=right>Item number: 170143541724</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/g...ts/rtCurve.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center bgColor=#5f66ee colSpan=6>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ccccff>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD><TD bgColor=#eeeeff><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=8 width="100%" bgColor=#eeeef8><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Buyer or seller of this item? for your status </TD><TD id=watching vAlign=top noWrap align=right>eBay

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<TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left width="25%">Shipping costs:</TD><TD colSpan=2>US $40.00
US Postal Service First Class Mail<SUP>®</SUP>
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Re: Panda dreamer

I'll take some of whatever they're smokin'! :confused_ma:

Re: Panda dreamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeofliberty (Post 734244)

I'll take some of whatever they're smokin'! :confused_ma:

Yeah , must be good stuff. Oh they'll go for that much someday I think , but not quite yet.
They are disappearing though. Just a matter of time.
Try an ebay search for early years and you get these:

0 items found for: 1983 silver panda proof
0 items found for: 1985 silver panda proof
0 items found for: 1984 silver panda proof
(1 items found for 1984 silver panda proof in eBay Stores )
1 item found for: 1987 silver panda proof 1oz<SCRIPT>document.write("(");</SCRIPT>

Try pandausa.com for early years and proofs:

1983,1984,1985,1989P-1996P ---SOLD OUT

Try PandaAmerica.com for same, and you may find the odd proof coin if you check at a good time and they have one or maybe two , though never in the 1983,4,5 from what I've seen.

Re: Panda dreamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by momopanda (Post 734313)

Yeah , must be good stuff. Oh they'll go for that much someday I think , but not quite yet.
They are disappearing though. Just a matter of time.
Try an ebay search for early years and you get these:

0 items found for: 1983 silver panda proof
0 items found for: 1985 silver panda proof
0 items found for: 1984 silver panda proof
(1 items found for 1984 silver panda proof in eBay Stores )
1 item found for: 1987 silver panda proof 1oz<script>document.write("(");</script>(

Try pandausa.com for early years and proofs:

1983,1984,1985,1989P-1996P ---SOLD OUT

Try PandaAmerica.com for same, and you may find the odd proof coin if you check at a good time and they have one or maybe two , though never in the 1983,4,5 from what I've seen.

I'll give $12.58 for that Panda and not a cent more!!!!!!!!! :sarcasm::sarcasm:

Re: Panda dreamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomD (Post 734329)

I'll give $12.58 for that Panda and not a cent more!!!!!!!!! :sarcasm::sarcasm:

And only if shipping is free!!!
I don't blame you TomD. When will y'all realize that they're only worth the PMV (Panda Melt Value). :D

Re: Panda dreamer

Asking about pandas, Do any of you have the 1993 1oz BU Silver Panda Coin Type 1B Sandy Version, the one that's extremely frosty ?

Re: Panda dreamer

Highest price I've seen paid for a Silver Panda- $1,375.00 for this slabbed '85 (not even an '83!). Damn! I love it.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=#eeeef8><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=5><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">This item has ended with Buy it Now.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=6>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD vAlign=center width="50%"></TD><TD>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD><TD>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD><TD>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD><TD vAlign=top width="50%"></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=6>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=6>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=#eeeef8><TBODY><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD colSpan=2>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#d6dcfe colSpan=2>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD width=5 colSpan=2>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR><TR height=8><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR vAlign=center><TD width=8>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD><TD>buy a similar item below. </TD></TR><TR height=8><TD colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2 height=5>http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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Re: Panda dreamer

I'm a panda dreamer.

There is no way that some of these coins will not be a roaring success with the Chinese, e.g the 1983 Silver Proof. In fact the collector demand from the U.S is already very strong and when thousands of collectors from the east 'want in' we'll see what happens.

People here miss the point when seeing Panda's in terms of their metal content. This is not what it is about, at least with the coins I'm talking about. And I'm talking about the rare ones of <5000 for example, though the first silver panda had a 10k mintage. It is about numismatics, collectibles, art. There is a growing demand and a fixed, very limited supply.

Some sort of diversification is prudent. Many here expect inflation to run away. Rare coins notoriously fare well in such an environment and I believe would complement bullion/ bullion coins nicely. I think Chinese modern coins are the finest looking coins around and in 20 years there will be huge auctions in China to get some of these beauties- just my view.

Just my 2 cents.

If anyone has questions or there are others collecting Chinese Modern Coins such as the Lunars/Pandas etc we could set up a thread on this. I'm just a collector and not trying to hype or sell anything to anyone though I might buy if you have something REALLY nice ;0)

Re: Panda dreamer

Hi Goald. Nice to meet someone who sees things the same way as I. :D
You won't find too many Panda fans here. If Numismatics is the red-headed stepchild of GIM, Panda coins would be her mangy pet mongrel :bear_tongue:. C'est la vie.

The counterfeit scandal is the only thing that prevents me from buying more Pandas, though I own a lot already. Waiting to see how it shakes out.

I'm particularly fond of the 87, as it is truly a one of a kind, having much to set it apart. The first full ounce coin issued in the series. The first, and only, minted in sterling. Vacant issue years on either side of it and a nice low mintage too.

I think the 89 Proof coins offer good value still, though they have more than doubled, tripled even, in price in the last year or two.
Though the mintage is not as low as the 96 or 92 Proofs and some others, 25,000 is still a miniscule run and the coins can still be had cheap relative to the other proof issues.

By the way , last week I notice a new higher price paid on ebay for a silver Panda- this time for an NGC-slabbed PF-68 1983 --<TABLE cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=1 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=left width="25%">Winning bid:</TD><TD noWrap>US $1,426.00 Item number: 150201008865</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Outside the Pandas, I have some of the older Chinese Olympic commemoritives. You used to be able to practically steal these things on ebay a couple of years ago, often I was the lone bidder. Not so anymore.

The Beijing games will do wonders for numismatics in the PRC imo.
I have heard it said that there are already many more members of China's Numismatic organization than there are US members of the American Numismatic Assn. The only thing many of them lack is disposable income. That will change as the eceonomy continues to expand.

I saw a show on stamp collecting in China on the Discovery channel last year. Many are obsessed with it. The Chinese are a very proud people. Anything collectible that has to do with their culture, heritage and history should be a fairly safe bet for invetor-collectors as their middle class grows, and even more importantly (when looking at such scarce items as 5 or 10k minted coins) as they mint thousands of new millionaires as they are beginning to do.
Again though, the country really needs to crack down on fraud and counterfeiting.

Re: Panda dreamer

Hi, I've got a fair number of Pandas too, around 70 or so but they are mostly sheets of 10 in the later issue years. My post above offering not a cent more than spot at the time (Sept 07, $12.58) was a joke. It was based on a rather contentious thread just a couple of days prior where a GIM member was trying to sell her pandas and another jumped her pretty hard declaring that they were bullion and not worth a cent past spot.

I notice that silver has appreciated 30% in the 4-1/2 months since that thread. Not bad.

news story below
China Counterfeit Surprise
by James Dunnigan
January 13, 2008

Discussion Board on this DLS topic One reason China tolerates the widespread manufacture of counterfeit products is because some of them have some military benefit for China's Cyber War effort. This came to light recently when the FBI arrested two Americans for running a computer parts company that was selling counterfeit computer parts (especially Cisco router components), manufactured in China. The phony parts had counterfeit labels, and were delivered in counterfeit boxes. The two brothers had a contract to sell these parts to the Department of Defense and other government agencies.
Actually, the Chinese got lucky with this one. Normally these counterfeit parts are sold by transitory operations. Eventually, the user has reason to contact the manufacturer of the shoddy part. At that point, the buyer discovers that, say, Cisco, has no router component with the serial number the scammed buyer is reading over the phone. It is then that the buyer realizes they have been screwed.
Counterfeit computer parts can be made to very low standards. They will work for a while, but not for the long periods of time that justify the high price of the authentic parts. The Chinese manufacturer sells the counterfeit parts at, say, 20 percent of what a real part would cost, to a foreign distributor. This guy then peddles the counterfeit parts to dealers who may, or may not, know they are getting cheap, but fake, parts at a deep discount. The dealer can then sell the counterfeits at a discount. Discerning buyers can check serial numbers on these high price components (some have a list price of thousands of dollars), but others are more trusting, and get burned.
Counterfeit high-tech items are a growing business, and a growing danger. In addition to computer gear, auto and aircraft components are also being faked. Some aircraft and auto accidents have been traced to the fakes, which makes it a public safety issue. But with the Department of Defense installing counterfeit computer components, it becomes a national security issue. There's also the fear that the Chinese, or some other hostile nation, might get their hands on real computer components, and replace some of the chips with modified ones that will make government networks easier to hack. Yes, it just gets worse.

Re: Panda dreamer

Great to hear from you both.

Sorry, my post just got deleted while needing to log in again :0(

Anyway, YES, the 1987 Proof Panda has lots going for it. There have been huge run ups in the last couple of years.. Were you bidding on the 1980 silver Olympic coins back then- were those the ones?

I've seen some huge price increases in some of the stuff I got back then- problem is how much it costs if I wanna buy some more!

I got the 1996 SIlver Proof 12 Ounce Panda for $640 2 years ago, it recently sold for $2300 and one is now listed on ebay here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320207097009
It's the rarest silver panda and has a bright future.

This guide might be helpful:
http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-spot-...00000000966183

I think that the fakes are quite easy to spot and apart from the inconvenience of their presence, one of the effects has been an increased supply of graded NGC and PCGS coins. I don't think that this is what will be wanted by Asian collectors as original packing is important IMO. I do have a couple of graded coins also but I'm not sure that is the way to go if you can buy the real stuff ungraded. What do you think?

I like the sheets too TomD.

Re: Panda dreamer

1996 12 ouncer! Nice. Now 800 , that's a tiny mintage! I'm jealous.
I've stuck mainly with the standard Silver Panda series, though I have a couple of piedforts.
I have a couple of complete panda sets, as well as multiples of my favorites.
I bought bunches of the 89 proofs for as low as $19 a couple years back. Wish I bought even more in hindsight.
Yes, I bought the 1980 Olympic commems for 12 to 20 dollars too, and they have fared well also.
I remember seeing Pandas, 83's and 85's for as little as $200 only two and a half years or so back, 84's for $125, --but had to pass on many due to liquidity issues.:banghead:
Well, at least I got some.
Interest has grown so much in the modern Chinese coins in just the last 3 or 4 years or so since I started collecting them.
I definitely agree with you that it will continue.
They can have my Pandas when they pry them from my cold dead hands!:wink:. Seriously though, unless there a completely irrational mania in these things, I've no intentions of selling too many of them for years to come. I just can't think of much else that has the the same potential and just plain makes sense to me.

I find the fakes very easy to spot in person also. At least so far, it doesn't mean they aren't always going to be improving on their 'craft' though.
I'm not worried so much about buying a fake as I am about the effect it will have on the market for the Pandas. Already many people just can't be bothered due to the high incidence of counterfeits.
I have heard rumors that the actual mint employees may have been involved in the disappearance of the dies etc. Now wouldn't that be a buzzkill. If counterfeiters came into possession of actual China Mint dies and were able to runoff a few hundred thousand 'extra' 1983's impossible to tell from the originals.
Don't know of the legitimacy of the rumor, or recall what years were mentioned, or if it was Shanghai or Shenzhen, but it came from a reliable seller in the PRC and nothing surprises me regarding the corruption in China.

Anyway, I'm not sure how it will all play out. Like you said, Chinese collectors may prefer the original mint packaging. I also only have a few slabbed coins.
I need to sit down one of these days and go through my Pandas again and catalog everything better.
I like the proof coins better for the most part.
I have some BU sheets from some mid years. As well as a bunch of 15 ct. "wheels" from 2006 which I bought for just two bucks or so above bullion prices late last year.:D Thewheels are pretty cool.

Poconopenn 's ebay guide is a great help for counterfeits. I've done business with him several times and he is a good guy and a good ebayer. I know most of the Panda sellers on eBay- at least the ones who've been around for a year or more. It's a pretty small community. Or had been anyway. It's growing, and that suits me fine! Some of the more reliable sellers in China have moved on, such as China-goldcoin, who was a great contact and good source of info.

TomD has posted some great photos of Pandas here and some good info on counterfeits too. Check the archives here.

Someday we will all have to get together and put together a definitive online one stop source of info for the Silver Panda series.
I still have had no luck even finding out the mintages for some of the BU's of the mid 90's. KM doesn't even have the numbers. Strange.

:coolbeer:

Re: Panda dreamer

It was through China Gold Coin on ebay that I made my only purchase of real Pandas from a Chinese dealer. I bought 1 sheet each of 02's, 03's, & 04's from him.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...6pandacopy.jpg

Re: Panda dreamer

"I just can't think of much else that has the the same potential and just plain makes sense to me."

- Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

"I have heard rumors that the actual mint employees may have been involved in the disappearance of the dies etc. Now wouldn't that be a buzzkill. If counterfeiters came into possession of actual China Mint dies and were able to runoff a few hundred thousand 'extra' 1983's impossible to tell from the originals.
Don't know of the legitimacy of the rumor, or recall what years were mentioned, or if it was Shanghai or Shenzhen, but it came from a reliable seller in the PRC and nothing surprises me regarding the corruption in China."

- That is terrible, let's hope it just a rumor. I'm sure there will always be some way to differentiate a real coin from a fake though, even if it involves analysis of the plastic capsule or plastic covering the capsule.
Where do you hear about this stuff anyway?.. I've done a few searches online but panda coins are only discussed once in a while on the PCGS and NGC forums and I don't know where else. I sure like some of the information you are sharing- not about the fakes, but you know what I mean ;0)

Sounds like you've been on ebay for a bit, whatever happened to heman-collectibles? Do you remember the seller and their store?.. They used to rival Hangzhouhuayinshoucangpin who is still there. In fact their website went down too, its a pity.